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But, any one is welcome to do that. There have invitations to write columns but I do write one for Mangalore Today since I have been doing it since years. The readers in vaiteeswaran koil are fraud. They are cheating people by telling lies. They get all answers from the people and clubbing all the info and gave the same back to the people and say that is the leaf. Dear Sir, with due respect to all those who have taken such efforts, almost 17 years ago I came across NADI and had one reading from the center at Tambaram. This intrigued me and I have had two more readings at a place in Ashok Nagar done about two years apart.
My interest has been more to figure out what is the method behind this than trying to debunk anything. Once my wife who does not believe in this kind of stuff and another time my brother who is an extreme sceptic happened to be along with me. We had their readings done as well. Again there wss a fair consistency with the previous reading with the last reading being the most accurate. Much of it was futuristic. Well I had forgotten about it. Recently, I came across the notes that I had made of their predictions for every period of 2 -3 years and I am rather amazed at the way that things have come to be, including child birth in the family, specific surgeries, injuries etc, job changes etc.
I have no doubt that there are charlatans willing to exploit anything and make a fast buck. But, I will wait for some one to give me what is the method by which this information is being obtained before throwing the baby out with the bathwater. We had thought of someone taking our photos and doing back ground check, someone using hypnosis etc.
There were bits of information about ancestry that I did not know and had to come home to check up from my relatives. Have you considered the possibiliy that they maybe using cold reading techniques?
I would tend to agree with Mr Sathya since I too experienced same way. To my utter shock the details given by Nadi were too personal and embedded for them to do a cold reading. Since i am an engineer myself,I am very keen to understand if there is a science behind this or is it some type of fraud. If this is true my larger question will be if there exist a free will or everything is already written and coded?
Of course I too have been a part of the same system but by practice through years managed to learn to think out of the box.
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There are so many variables for the events in our lives that it is quite difficult for an outsider to say how predictions were done for you. Some times these investigations reveal startling unexpected things which may be shocking. As for things being preordained you could go back into my older write up about the same. If the man who reads the leaves had read his own would he have not known that on that particular day some one would come and feed him all misinformation?
Why did he have to ask innumerable questions before identifying the leaves pertaining to the individual before him? Why the did the divine hand to assume such a one exists have not guided him to the proper document relevant to the client sitting before him? If everything has been preprogrammed, then what needed to be done was to keep a document ready to be handed over when the person walks in because all that has been decided before by the powers that be! And, if this were the case how come it failed with everyone with whom I had gone?
The best way for you to test this very objectively would be for you to go there next time with an envelope with a currency note. Since it would be preordained the reader would be knowing that you expect him to read the serial number of that he would do that on the spot and also give you the number before the envelope is opened and this could be easily verified.
Besides once he passes your test he can become eligible for a bigger one with me in which I will give him a stake money of Rs. Instead of arguing endlessly about such things one could prove conclusively once for all that nadi jotidam is an accurate science. Alternatively, the nadi expert could also predict the number of a lottery ticket and earn earn huge amounts by that instead of slogging it out in dingy shops touting for customers. I do not think it should be difficult for an expert who had told you many things about your personal life not known to any one else to do this petty thing by the high standards that you have ascribed to him.
But, of course they have their escape routes and tell you that it has been predicted that they would fail and hence they would not do it! So, here is a position where they always win! For the skeptic no proof is sufficient and for the believer no proof is necessary. However, one thing that strikes me about the entire approach is that when the entire enterprise is based on debunking and therefore is only seeking out instances that are suited to them.
Should it be a really scientific experiment you need to gather both types of data….. My wife would have a very specific surgery 14 years after reading or that my very close relation would marry a divorcee with a 6 year old son. I have been through the cold reading concept etc. He happened on nadi and went in. There were some which were quite interesting as he confessed to me. First he happened to be a very skeptic swede 72 years of age and thrice married with many grandchildren etc. The name they gave was sanahita or something like that he said which was wrong as the lady was named Nancy.
So he dropped it at that and a couple of months later, his wife happened to speak to her mother they were orginally from Srilanka and when the mother heard that this was the name give, the old lady screamed. That was the name they had given their daughter on birth and till two years, when they had converted to christianity, which the child never even knew herself. Well he happened to sell out his business to his own brother in law and moved back to Sweden as was told years ago….. I have no agenda to prove this is a hoax nor do I have any vested interest in proving them right. I am intrigued, just as when I see magic.
I follow all the skeptics to see if when the secret is revealed. Maybe there is some system they have in the background. Whatever it is has to be pretty sophisticated, or by now the whole secret of the system would have been out in the open. The Definition differs from person to person. And upto this instant moment acquired karma also can be included.
Thus, so that not to effect so much of Sanchitha and Aagaami. Some Karmas are called Dhrudha Fixed Karmas, like birth, death etc. Which no body can change, at the most even Miracles may Postpone it…….. But everybody has to go through the Experience of Dhrudha Karmas which are known also as Prarabdha Karmas…. So it is all complex thing the Karma theories….. That is the Purpose of Life Births and Deaths. Soul is Never Born, Never Dies. All the Babas and Saints or religious people can only Bless and Send some Positive Vibrations and pray some times it may work or may not , when the weightage of other factors is also good.
That was my point infact. Otherwise this world would have been at stand still. Best Wishes to All. Can You Tell me who is a real Vedic Brahmana? IS there anybody? Also what kind of Karma will that Brahmana Who cursed will undergo? Are you against Nadi Astrology or totally against Astrology? These are all to be Self Realized as there is plenty of knowledge to experience about Astrology which is spread world-wide….
This was ancient tool used for decision making which has probability limit of max 0. For best results from astrology, one should visit trained, experienced astrologers to have max predictions. Or else, with street side readings you are doomed to get predictions with probability limit upto 0. For instance, imagine watching a simple card trick where the suit of the card you pick out changes from hearts to clubs while you are holding the card in your hand.
If the card magician tried to convince you that he actually changed the suit on your specific card from hearts to clubs using telekinesis of the plastic molecules, that is a fraud science and a fraud practitioner. If while claiming this, he actually did the trick using a thin coating of Polyesterene that he perfected for playing cards, that is real science, although a different one. He is still a fraud practitioner and the original science being claimed telekinesis still remains fraud.
And if one day we discover that telekinesis is possible, this should still lend no credibility to him what so ever. Most of us have the intuition to understand that the card trick was just that, a card trick. A very simple test could be designed to debunk the telekinesis claim of this magician. Then, people like Narendra Nayak, in an attempt to dig deeper, would be forced to hire this magician and observe the trick. Astrology is not a science. It is a system… a system that does not work. It has a data collection system and a set of rules to generate predictions.
It is a pseudo-scientific system. Even as just a system, it does not have internal validity, let alone external validity. Astrology had been subjected to scientific examinations. The only effects the planets have on you is the gravitational pull. People around you have a larger gravitational pull on you than any of the planets.
Astrology lacks plausibility.
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It does not pass ANY scientific test. People believe in it entirely due to cognitive biases. Astrology succeeds as a business entirely because people are gullible. It is important to have double-blinded tests to evaluate it. A double-blind test of astrology. It is easy for an astrologer to convince a gullible customer and the world is full of them. They never succeed when tested in a proper double-blinded setting. They never succeed in matching natal charts to subjects. A scientific inquiry into the validity of astrology.
I went to a nadi reader 10 year back, got a recorded cassette and forgot it. I was 32 then and 42 now. I was leading a happy married life then. A month back, I found that cassatte when I was cleaning my room. I was shocked at the accuracy of the reading. Let me give you my thoughts here. Judging or comprehending these statements are up to your individual minds.
We human beings Homo sapiens have an amazing tool called BRAIN to perform almost everything that it perceives to be true to itself. It is highly sophisticated to be understood completely. However, let me tell you certain things which I understood and think to be true. Once believed, if similar ideas are encountered, all of them combine or coexist in the mind. However, if the mind encounters a contrasting idea or opinion, then such dissimilar ideas resist one another and become forces in conflict. Then one idea is forced to become favored over another. The favored idea stays in consciousness.
The unfavored idea is pushed out of consciousness. But it will remain in the unconsciousness. So, the point here is, believers will continue to believe and rationalists will continue to disbelieve. Until unless something drastically happens such that a very strong idea or thought owing to any such experience occurs that contrasts with the existing idea but still overpowering those existing ideas and convinces mind of the unlikeliness or illogical nature or unfavorable nature of the existing ideas.
Then such ideas will be thrown to unconscious and replaced with the new succeeding ideas. Such is the nature of human brain. Now, let me tell my view point to this topic being discussed in this blog. Also, everything is bound by time and material, which is the nature of everything. So the time of study also plays a vital role in any experiment. However, if such a thing is proven wrong, then it means, that particular law does not hold true anymore and must be detested to be irrelevant to our times.
If something cannot be proven logically, then why believe in it and lead an irresponsible life? I think, the problem is we fail to accept nature as nature itself. Rather, trying to find a logical answer to our questions of creation or anything that our human race is yet to discover, we just put a full stop to all the questions in the name of God and arrest the curiosity in us. This very nature in us that always tries to find shortcuts, tries to conjures up such fake things such as Astrology, etc and puts forth them as answers to make us believe in something and inevitable, once mind believes, our thoughts and actions combine to prove them right.
And for people who believe, they come back from such places thinking and firmly believing that their problem will be resolved. And by the very nature of human brain, if we firmly believe something, then our thoughts and action come together to fulfill it unconsciously. And we inevitably find solutions to our problems and finally attribute it to the so called God or god men, who actually did nothing but just exploited you.
And in fact, its you yourself who solved your problems but so modestly give it up to Him. Else it will become too boring. And your past is something which you already know. So whats the fun in hearing it from some unknown stranger. Live everyday in the present with a positive, life enriching purpose rather than dying early knowing your future or re-experiencing your past pains by hearing your so-called past painful stories yet again. Is there any thing really written or is it scrabbling without any meaning?
Whether it is written by many Naadi Maharishis or by scoundrels like Naadi readers needs investigation.
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I am not sure will it appear as jpg image here as a sample how the names appear in Nadi palm leaf. Sir, I have been going thru the arguments and counter arguments on Nadi. About 10 years back, I went to a Nadi practitioner by the name of Mr. Arun in Anna Nagar-Chennai and my intention was to prove that it is all wrong. As everybody feels here, it is possible to get some details like the fathers name etc by some cold reading but not all the details are given I also did not give and what amazes me is the details about the children, spouse name etc are given during the nadi reading.
Second interesting point is, the horoscope that is given in the book at the end and it matches with the one that was made when I was born. How did they get it as I never gave them any other details like the time etc. I believe in our sages and their knowledge and wisdom. It will be better if we go deep into it and I am sure that there will be some real treasure hidden which is being misused by the so called practitioners. To sum up, I think the science itself cannot be questioned but you can question the scrupulous practitioners.
And if they did could you shed some light on to as how the procedure is done? My issue is about having under muscle as I am always active meaning that I go to the gym. Does anyone have any recommendations? Everyone,here deals with nadi. I ask some questions. Anand, I apologise your comment. If these gunas removed by meditating state,and tell about karmic life. If it is possible to tell yogic life. Past life can be seen only by those who enter 9th jhana meditation … Others all have normal conciousness and are fraud in nadi josiyam.
I was told on good authority that you need a midi-chlorian count of over 40, to see past life. Had a Nadi experience today. My friends who had visited this guy praised him a lot and accepted Nadi as a science and appreciated the skills of our ancestors. I was very curious. So i got an appointment and went in. This guy is supposedly a master in the field and people say great things about him. I entered in and waited for sometime and then this guy reader came and took a thumb impression of mine.
He went in with that and after almost half an hour he came out with a bundle. It had about 60 leaves. He started questioning me. But my leaf wasnt available in that bundle. So he took another bundle. Towards the middle of this bundle, my leaf was to be found. By then, he had gone through at least leaves and had asked me atleast questions which were totally unrelated to each other and instead focused on different aspects of my life.
I kept answering. And he got the leaf and after an hour he called me in. He has written down the entire thing in a book. And now started explaining to me. And there was nothing new apart from some random predictions about future and that I have to have some pujas for the same costing about rs. This is pure cold reading and nothing else.
With years of training, their mannerisms and interaction and all become trustworthy and awestrucking…but it is cold reading still. Another astrology related doubt cleared. I went to see on naadi jyosiyar in Vellore a few years ago. He took my thumb print and first letter of my name. Then he went in and find the extended leaflet for that matches leave. Based on whats in that, he drew my birth chart accurately.
Many details were accurate, including the name of the women I was married to and all. There are things made sense to me, maybe not for my parents. What he said was mostly about the past in this life also past life, I have killed snake in my past life and its haunting in this life.
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It cleared many things I had in my mind. Then he said I have a blocker and i cannot go further in to finding the next leaf which has more detail and it wasnt meant to be heard now. Asked me to go home and visit a Lord Muruga temple, put vilakku and do some prayers and that will clear the blocker and i could read further another day.
In total we spent about about 4 hours. I think he charged about Rs. He said he only see a very few clients not everyone. I had many problems that time because of my wife. Because she looks innocent and able to cry anytime infront of others, everyone believed her. I was telling the truth, but no one believed me including my family. It was very hard for me to pull my life together all by myself. This visit kind of gave my family members the belief that I was actually telling the truth.
I think I meant to visit this place in this need naadi and what I needed at that time was kind of available for me. It may not be everyone, you wont get everything, but you hear what you needed to hear. There is no solution. You can only test them if they accept your conditions.
Even though you expose normal midbrain scam or this nadi stuff , I find nadi stuff as more psychologist or tarrot readers. Absolute sense they fraud but do help people relax but if they know you are rich you are doomed. It is like going to car mechanic with new car. He will losen few nuts in the car and tell you myriad of problems and hoping next time he take all your money. But what about Nityananda and kanchi sankaracharya? INDIA is conman paradise. They let hindu conman free reign to scam people in the name of religion. Dear Dr Nayak Sir, Thanks for prompt action taken by you.
Due to your alert the Sarva dharma morcha was banned fearing a gathering of to persons. This I came to know from a friend who showed me local news paper Pudhari. However, the purpose of morcha was served with a meeting with local rationalists and who have challenged, Jyotishacharya As he calls himself Atul Chajed on 11th April. They are to meet soon before news reporters and general public to decide the results. This is for your info and record. This issue is not the main topic of this thread. Examination Nadi Jothidam under watchful eyes is the one for which Dr Dre is going to provide his report.
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Meanwhile incidentally, I opened the link given previously here above. Some articles were published in which someone had clarification sought to know how come B Premanand had accepted that his name was found in the palm leaf? The link above takes to some apps. One of them is about Nadi predictions a hoax? Surely many of the writers and supporters of this thread will find interesting to explore the apps. I presume Dr Narendra Nayak Sir being an expert in the field, will like to open a new topic for the same.
Visited one Nadi astrologer on 28th May. Not sure whether the future predictions are going to be anywhere true or close at all, anyway on the past I could give him a score of 6 out of Post that this guy suggested pooja for 48 days at 60 rs a day. Hmmm knew i was getting conned but anyway went ahead with it. Few days later had taken a relative of mine to another reading place. Incidentally this guy walks in here and is surprised to see me.
Inquires what i was doing here etc, etc. The look on his face was of surprise as I am sure it was not started and he knew that i knew he pulled a fast one. Well serves me right, amongst the fraudsters in this beautiful world of ours, you find these guys including poojaris, touts all with the agenda of exploiting fear into a business model.
Serves me right anyway was prepared to lose the money. End of day its better to feed poor people and burn your past karamas if any rather pay these guys. Even I wont believe in god, but I believe in Naadi Shaastra. I cannot say exactly what is the power behind that. Its My experience.. I had been to Vaitheeswaran Koil I think 13 years back to the temple.
Even though I belong to nearby place I did not believe in all these things. I thought I will not spend much and try to find what is init. He gave me the note book and recording but I did not preserve since I did not believe in it the future he predicted. The past matched and names matched. To my surprise the details of my family, myself and spouse were all correct.
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It is easy to predict about my family and myself and really its hard to predict about my spouse. Even many of my relatives do not know about it. Some of the future predictions he mentioned I have to wait for 4 to 5 years and it happened. Some of the predictions he told me I did not even had a hope at that time but it happened. My interactions with him was minimal and the questions he asked me were very few and all were just direct and no hide and seek.
At one time I was about to leave as I got irritated when he started his questions initially and after seeing my irritation he told my name, father, mother name directly and said the leaves say like this whether correct or not. Later I was calmed down a little and told him not to ask me questions like probability. He agreed and continued and never asked me the questions and he only told my past and future predictions.
After that I never had an opportunity to see the nadi again even though I went to the temple several times. I did my tertiary education in Science and do not easily believe anything without any proof of concept. This nadi I could say I cannot believe based on the proof of concept and sometimes I believe based on my experience.
Of course not. You say you have tertiary education in science. How exactly did you apply it here? Have you read any research literature on these prediction pseudosciences? Did you employ a proper scientific process? Did you even get a copy of the leaf for interpretation by a different language expert?
If no, at least for this case, you are not different than anyone without a science degree. So I request u to dont waste your money and time on these fraudsters. Ravi- Sage Agasthya wrote it correctly. Problem is palm readers are poor in interpreting it. Also your palm will be available only with one Nadi jyotish guy. Check it out. In general, contrary to what skeptics say, astrology does have astronomy. When Sun, moon and lunar node Rahu or ketu comes in one rashi , one star solar eclipse occurs. If Rahu or ketu is not there it would be just a new moon.
Astrology cannot be scientifically proven because, it is not quantifiable. Anything related to mind, sins, good merits, blessings etc are not measurable and quantifiable. Besides this, of course good karma can change the astrological effects. None of these leaves were written by Agasthya. These are cheaply and recently produced leaves with random old-Tamil looking scribblings that are then processed a bit to make them look old. People are simply taking advantage of your cultural beliefs.
Today, all astrology is culturally-sanctioned fraud. Astrology does have astronomy… a pre-scientific, incorrect, geo-centric model of astronomy that was used across most of the ancient world, not just in India. And it has been dis-proven. There are studies on the topic. Astrology every kind of it fails when properly tested. I have linked a few in the discussion above. That is because these are wishy-washy, hand-waving ideas. Blessings, sins etc are vague religious and cultural ideas.
Concepts should be critically vetted, not be faith-based. Because people who have never tested it nod their head uncritically about it? What value do such empty claims have? The entire ancient world, not just India, produced a whole bunch of astrological texts. The whole premise that we can produce such predictions is entirely based on dark ages thinking — with a very poor understanding of cause and effect, cognitive biases, astronomy and probability.
People used to joke and critique about the silliness of Astrology even in the ancient world, including in India.
You have no basis to make any of these claims. You are just saying things that feel good to you and appeal to your cultural sensibilities. Let us live in the 21st century, not in the 15th. Astrology is not a science because the model is highly irrational and it has been empirically shown to not work.
But we could call it a system a sastra , albeit a non-working system, but a system nonetheless. Ravi — I have just an aquiantance with nadi jyotish so I cant comment on it muc. Just shared my observation. On Indian astrology, you said below:- Astrology does have astronomy… a pre-scientific, incorrect, geo-centric model of astronomy that was used across most of the ancient world, not just in India. Yes I agree it is geo centric. Astrology is all about relative movement of sun, moon, lunar nodes Rahu and Ketu and five planets around earth.
But how come you say it is pre-scientific and incorrect without any knowledge. As I told, moon , sun and lunar nodes come together, astrologers calculate the solar eclipse correctly. The panchangam clearly says time of eclipse. Do you know except sun and moon all other 5 planets have retrograde ie they move backwards sometimes. This proves that the movement is relative to earth.. Do not spread misinformation without knowing. Regarding how Saturn or mars affect us, I cant prove scientifically. It is not gravity or some invisible rays. But it does affect whether you believe or not. Now question of me providing proof.
I know it personally. But it is personal to those people. SO how do you except me to share. You will believe only if you have problem and you approach a true astrologer and his predictions come true. Astrology was just hard without telescopes, just as understanding infectious diseases was very hard until there were microscopes. We love science precisely because it demonstrates to us with proof that reality is different from simple perceptions.
People believe in pseudoscience for the exact reasons you have. Science is not personal to people. It is about general, verifiable claims about reality. Beliefs are personal to people. And this is exactly why people believe in Astrology. They think astrologers gave them remarkable predictions.
Please read up on the psychology of what happens when people visit astrologers. Look up the cognitive biases at play here. Even I said planet moving backward is relative to earth not in actual terms. Astrology is motion of planets across zodiacs and it is relative to earth. You observe the moon on your star birthday not DOB every year.
The moon will be of same size full moon, new moon, partial moon etc. If our astrological calendar has only days, makara sankranthi would be behind atleast by 50 days by now. The indian astrological calender is as precise as gregorian calender or even more accurate. The significance of this day is this is the day sun enters aries mesha rashi. Some important articles are given here :.
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